Below is an interview from Moth UK’s Simon Propper with
European Champion Simon Payne. Interesting, though I’m not sure I
agree with everything…
Design sailed: Fastacraft Prowler
Spars: Windrush
Sail: KA
All up weight: never weighed it, sub thirty I suppose
Your weight: 64 KG
Your age: 41
Music: Lots of stuff. U2, Norah Jones, my mate Matt’s band, Opera,
Favourite song “I like to move it move it”
Give us a brief summary of your sailing career. Is sailing in
your family?
Nope, didn’t start till I was 15. Cadets, 420’s, 470’s 505’s , Mumm
30’s etc..That brief enough?
Congratulations on your European Championship win at Garda.
You’ve won championships before. Is Garda your best sailing
achievement?
Thank you. Well its certainly up there with the best. Definitely my
best result in the Moth. Hopefully not my last.
Going in to the event did you believe you had closed the gap on
Rohan or were you doubtful?
Yeah I knew I’d closed the gap, but didn’t know if it would be
enough. I was confident I would be fast and sometimes I could see
me winning and sometimes not. When we got there I felt good, but
Adam was getting faster and frankly I was more worried about him
than anyone else. When we were training together it was so close
you couldn’t have fitted a boat between us so either Rohan was
going to win or he’d be third. When I saw Rohan sailing for the
first time I thought to myself “yeah, I got you mate”
At the worlds in Melbourne were you initially surprised that
Rohan was still in a class of his own?
Yes a bit, I remember watching him sail some of the Australian
National races and thinking “shit, he’s good”. Actually I thought
Rohan was proportionally better in Melbourne than he was at Garda.
Big winds and long courses suit his ability to make the boat go but
right now in this class you just cant afford to relax and that’s
what prompted me to do some full time sailing to close the
gap.
Going into the final day at Garda you and Adam May were tied for
points. Then you pulled off three straight wins. What happened
there?
Well the day before was really tight. I won the first race but the
next two I lost places as well. Adam had the best day and closed
the gap. I was still leading but only on number of race wins.
On the morning of the last day there was no wind and when you are
leading on the last day its quite easy to get into the mindset of I
hope the wind doesnt come, then they will can it and Ill win. I was
determined that wouldnt happen and wanted to race.
You have to have self belief and, perhaps due to other things that
have happened in my life I have that. I wasnt about to write the
speech but my plan was to get a good yet safe start, then when Id
done that, put everything into a good first beat, then a good reach
etc, only ever focussing on the next mark.. and see how I went. By
breaking the race down itself into a series of short races I find
it easier to manage.
So I won the first one and that restored my points lead. I was
really pleased about that. That was the most important one to win.
The second race I got a great start, with Adam on my hip and Rohan
down to leeward. I kept thinking about something my son said before
the event. Dad time to win, put your back into it So I did. I
opened up a pretty big lead and then throttled back a bit, just
really to bring it home OK. Ive lost events before by going at ten
tenths for too long and stacking it at the critical moment. Adam
caught up but left it late and I had control until the finish.
Nothing is ever for certain though, if Id have blown the last gybe
he would have been right back in it. I guess what Im saying is that
winning the last three races looks convincing but on the race
course it was much closer than that.
The last one? Well Id won but I enjoy it so much I didnt want to go
in! You dont find that in any other class. Sam was fast and I had
to catch him. Adam and I were glued together as usual.
The skills range at Garda between the four top foilers (you,
Adam, Rohan, Mark and Sam Pascoe) was pretty large. Most people
below there were at risk of getting lapped. How do you see this
developing over time? Will the fit semi-pros just get further and
further ahead or will the foilschool start to catch up?
Difficult to say, trends are hard to stop but improvements for the
semi pros will become more incremental, for the foil school larger.
If the foil school put there back into it then there will be more
new faces at the front. Adam and I are proof that you can close the
gap on the best. Really this is about attitude, nothing comes for
free.
Can you sum up where you think the class is internationally with
the impact of the adoption of hydrofoils. Is the development on
course to strengthen the class or is the jury still
out?
One of the most desirable and exciting high profile racing classes
of our times. I believe now we can live up to our strap line of
Formula one on the water. Rohan has just been short listed for
World Sailor of the Year. How many times has that happened in our
history? Last week I was in Shang Hai, China (in a bar) and a guy
recognised me, came up and shook my hand. He lived in Hong Kong and
new everything about foiler moths. I think people really do believe
what we are doing is special. I think it is as significant as when
boats started to plane, more significant than Assymmetrics. Look at
the effect it had one me, I was about to give up sailing completely
after the Les Sable worlds but since the foiler revolution I gave
up work instead to focus on sailing!
Was it at the worlds in Les Sables that you decided foiling was
the future. Rohan, the only foiler, was attempting his first
championship on foils and was engaged in a rather intense battle
with Mark Thorpe sailing his conventional Hungry Tiger. I don’t
recall if you tried Rohan’s boat?
I’d never sailed a foiler but just seeing the fun Rohan was having
convinced me. Also the incredible build quality and attention to
detail of Rohans boat made it …well desirable. I did think about
it for a couple of weeks and this was at the time when we were
unsure if it would be legal in the long term, this bothered me for
a while but then I thought, “well, who cares, that is an incredible
machine and it looks like I’ll have a lot of fun”. If I cant race
it in then so what!”
Being a development class the rules will always be under
pressure from innovations previously unforeseen or simply people
wanting to change them. Do you think the class internationally and
nationally now has strong enough governance (people and processes)
to handle these situations?
Yes, we have a strong man at the helm and Mark Robinson,
International President does a great job. I think his leadership
through this period of change has been exemplary. I don’t really
see the innovations as “pressure” but more opportunities, it’s in
line with the class constitution.
The latest little debate is sail area and measurement. There’s a
lively string on the Australian web forum. This was kicked off by
Rohan attributing his relative loss of form at Garda to the new
sail area measurement procedure. First, do you accept the new sails
are a handicap versus the old sails? And second what do you think
the class should do on area and measurement?
I sailed with Adam in Garda when he was using his new MSL10. I
actually felt he was quicker with the new sail upwind when we were
over powered, I think that’s largely because it’s a bit flatter.
Anyway it’s the first design I’ve seen within the new rules and as
such its early days. I just don’t believe we have enough evidence
yet. Personally I’m with the new measurement programme, Too many
sails were too big and one of the benefits pointed out by the
advocates of the rule change was that we would get more efficient
shapes. Guess we will have to see. It is kind of a shame to see so
many reactive emails trying to change the sail area rule when only
one new sail design has been produced. I couldn’t believe all those
calculations trying to determine the time loss around the race
course of an MSL10 Versus a 9. I think most racing sailors felt a
little uncomfortable when they read that.
I don’t think the class needs to do anything. We’ve made a
decision, now time to make it work.
The Moth builder situation seems to be improving. With three
quality builders (two in Australia and one in the UK) potential
customers have more choice than in the past. You have ordered a new
Prowler from Fastacraft. How will the new boat differ from your old
one? After taxes and duties what has it cost?
I thought long and hard about selling Shoulder Angel, I was quite
attached to that boat but at the end of the day changing boats is
just part of the programme. The new boat will be an incremental
improvement, but an improvement none the less. Basic dimensions
will be the same but the foils will be 2nd generation. Before I
sold the old boat I experimented with hydraulics to replace the
cable. It worked well. The new boat will have the facility to use
hydraulics between the wand and the centreboard.
After duties and tax? Errr dont know. Never added it up. Great
value though.
I know its impolite to talk about money in some yacht clubs but
really youd be doing the class a service if you could give everyone
an indication of the price of a new boat. The figure seems
surprisingly hard to find and its a prime factor for people
considering joining the class. My hunch is 8k. Is that about
right?
Yes I think thats about right, exchange rates affect boats
purchased from abroad, also how you get it here, I fly mine over
via DHL which adds to the cost but my feeling is its around 8k. The
Australian exchange rate is still favourable and that tend to
counter the shipping
Hand built in carbon to the lightest possible spec, the Moth is
never going to be a cheap boat. Do you think the current price is
limiting growth of the class and if so should this be a factor in
future rules decisions?
No I dont believe so, Its price position is good. Same as a Musto
Skiff/RS700. Faster and will last longer
For Rohans Garda boat, John Illett made some modifications to
the original Prowler you were sailing. The wing frame was cut short
at the back and the dagger board was moved forward (but the mast
stayed in the original position). Do you think these were
successful and which if any will be incorporated in your new
boat?
I believe that the wings can come forward from the transom but just
a bit. My old boat had this anyway as the back bar was angled
forward as it met the outer bar. I think if you use packers on the
gantry to induce lift the wings on Rohans Garda boat are fine, if
you dont you gotta get back more. Having said that I never sailed
Rohans boat it in marginal conditionsReally though this is a second
order issue..
Moving the centreboard forward is different. Adam did the same
thing with his new boat and hes really quick. Sometimes though its
hard to knock the bow down with your body weight on a run. Really
safe down wind though (after Rohan had cut down his massive rudder
foil) but sometimes stability and speed dont go hand in hand. Rohan
was going OK in Garda I guess
Dimensionally my new boat will be similar to the old one.
Im interested that you ended up selling your old boat abroad.
Were there no customers for a top foiler in excellent condition in
the UK?
Probably.. it wasnt on the market very long
With encouragement from Scott Babbage, its good to see that
Mark Thorpe has updated the
Hungry Tiger for foiling. Do you know much about the boat and
do you know if it is a one off or to be sold more widely?
Nope. Im glad that there is a foiler builder in Sydney though. Put
it in the right hands and time will tell if the boat is any good.
Knowing Mark it will be.
One area that worries me is sails. Currently all sails are
coming from KA. Not taking anything away from the innovation and
quality of the product, they are pretty expensive by the time youve
imported one to the UK. More for example than an 8 meter windsurf
sail. And diversity is good for development. Do you think any UK
sailmaker will make a serious effort to get into the
market?
Yes, I believe there are a number of big UK sail makers interested.
As you say KA are dominant right now, and the great thing is that
more you order the bigger discount you get! Ive always been really
happy with my KA sails , the quality is great and the detailing
really good, also they last so long. The one I used at Garda (for
all but one race) must have done hundreds of hours… I guess I
just worry about being too detached from development. There is lots
of opportunity here though and I expect the next phase of
development to come from the rig.
How much have you learned about setting up the foils? When the
new boat arrives in a box, take us through the steps you will do to
get it flying perfectly.
OK firstly when I assemble the boat it I will add a May Stick to
the wand so I can artificially bend the wand when its breezy to
keep the boat lower in the water. When this is done I will taper
the wand a bit so its thinner and bendier where it touches the
water. The top guys seem to have different length wands. Mine is
the longest, I like it like that. Probably doesnt matter thoughNext
I will turn the boat over and with the main foil flap on neutral
(make a template so you can slide it over the foil to be sure) I
will ensure the wand is at 45 degrees to the stem of the boat. I
alter the length of the Bowden Cable (Fastacraft only) to achieve
this and then measure it and write the length on the boat
With the rudder foil, I mark where neutral is in the tiller and
thats it. I never use packers in the gantry to induce lift, dont
believe in em.
When sailing Im constantly adjusting the elastic that pulls on the
May stick to find the right height for the conditions.
Thats with a conventional set up, the hydraulics will be a little
different and you will have to wait and see there..
The UK boats led by Adam, spend a lot of time setting up the
gantry angles and some have adjustable gantries. Do you see any
need for this on your boat?
I never adjust mine, people use packers but I dont. I like my
rudder foil flying flat, neither pushing the transom down or up. To
get there though you need to make some adjustments and an
adjustable gantry helps here I suppose.
Next year we have the build-up to the worlds in Denmark. People
and gear who and what do you rate?
I rate Fastacraft boats and the new Mistress. KA sails and Garmin
GPS’s. To win that event you have to cover all bases. Could be
light, could be breezy. Adam is my odds on favourite. Never back
yourself (publicly)
Thanks very much Si
