Given that there’s a few hours of postponement ahead… the Moth manufacturers have been corralled together for an impromptu sales pitch for their products and future plans. Somehow I think some of the manufacturers are more prepared for this than others…
So what are they going to say?
Bladerider [Rohan Veal]
218 boats so far out of McConaghy in China, but no more. Current McConaghy stock will be sold off
Plans for the future include 4 different models:
- FX heavy fibreglass (but just as fast). Available February ‘09. Aluminium track for wing tramps.
- SRX - Carbon vacuum infused built in Asia. Straight tube wing frame instead of the sexy bladder moulded X8 style.
- RX - Somewhere in between.
- VRX - manufactured in Melbourne. High-end product for high-end racers. Custom made with special paint. Different sails and masts. Available by the end of the year.
Questions…
Hull designs?
[Rohan] Same for the range, other than a slighter wider deck for tramp tracks.
[Alan Watson] Reliability. Will the boats last 10 years?
[Rohan] 2 year warranty for Europe. Parts improving constantly. Problems sorted quickly and compensated for.
[Adam May] 10 years competitive life in a development class is not particularly realistic.
[Mark Robinson] Our boats are so much better than those plastic Olympic classes. Les likes to break wing bars because he’s so fit and all.
[Doink] But only when people run into him.
[Mark] Newbies crash often and break stuff. Like John’s gantries.
[Dave Chisholm] Make sure you wash it and replace all the bits when they look like they’re wearing out. Preventative maintenance stops you breaking stuff.
[Steve Hopper] What about aerodynamics?
[Rohan] More interested in mass production rather than optimisation. We’ll change in the future if necessary. Small gains at high cost.
[Mark] Tooling costs lots. Development has come from home builders in the past. Boats are losing freeboard. Development will be slow unless we have the backyard tinkerers.
[Graham] Cost for VRX elite boat?
[Rohan] No idea. Probably cheaper than McConaghy. Cost probably not going up, other than shipping out of Melbourne. Pricing released later. High modulus carbon will probably cost more. Pricing between models will probably be staged.
[Andrew Brown] Does that mean it will still be one-design?
[Rohan] Never sold as a one design, mass produced instead. No intention of a class owners association. Up to the owners to decide about limitations.
Fastacraft [John Ilett]
Strong demand for boats in the past, which means long lead time. 15 boats a year in batches. Hoping to get to mass production in Thailand and Vietnam. Manufacturing of hulls to be done in Vietnam in future, painted and non-skidded hulls shipped by the container load to Perth, with other parts assembled, fitted and shipped from the Fastacraft factory. Same quality which Fastacraft is known for. 6 boats available. First container delivered in October. Boats shipped through November/December. Hoping to sell in-house sails/masts.
[Toby Heppell] Costs reduced?
[John] No. Delivery times shortened, and resale agents involved. Pricing unlikely to be reduced.
[Toby] How many?
[John] 100-200 per year. 15 boats in first batch. 30-40 in first year. Manufacturer in Asia wants more. The more built, the better the quality. I will be traveling to Vietnam with moulds and demo boat to train builders.
[Andrew Brown] Will the design be different?
[John] No. Looking at two-piece foils but the hull will remain unchanged. Experienced designer giving advice on what’s right and wrong.
[Alan Goddard] Possibility of foil kits sans hull?
[John] Not likely. Progressively moving construction over with wings and trolleys, then foils last. Limited capacity is going into producing foils for boats rather than foils for home builds.
Velociraptor [Dave Chisholm]
History? Where we are? What’s next? Idea started at the UK Nationals in ‘07. Design features like v-hull and wing bar sections. Idea to build for Adam and myself, but lots of other people wanted one as well. Standard Velociraptor is productionized version of those boats. Next boat is the first of the production line. Elliptical front-sections and lower freeboard on Velociraptor-S which Adam and I sail. Boats being retrofitted as things improved. 6 boats built with 5 at this event. Simple production process (Graham Eels formerly Tornado builder). Carbonology supplies frames, tubes etc which Graham then puts together, then painted and finished at next production facility. Boats fitted out in Department-V of Carbonology. Quite a few orders including a couple to Australia. Two specifications and some standard colours (which nobody has ordered). Two specs: standard at 9500 GBP. skies the limit at somewhere about 14500 GBP… but we’re not going to confirm or deny that.
Plans for transportability?
[Dave] Currently non-transportable. Kit being built now. Wingbars bonded together before they go in the boat. Can be cut/sleeved. 500g extra weight. Removable wing bar option available at no extra cost. Kit retro-fittable to existing fixed-wing boats.
[Alan Watson] Guarantees?
[Dave] 1 year warranty. Guaranteed for life if you guarantee not to crash it. We’re building the fastest production boats ever built. Raptor not an expensive boat in the UK compared to its competitors, but margin gets eaten away when things have to be replaced, so no intention of building an unreliable boat. Won’t hand over a boat til the owner is insured and guarantees they are capable of sailing it.
KA Sails [Andrew McDougall]
[Andrew] Humbled by the fact that so many people have bought the sails. Bladerider and I separated a year ago, but maybe we’ll be working together again in future. Every MSL13 has been oversize unfortunately. Measuring is now more accurate than it has been. Australian measurement has always been tighter. Where to next? Going to address durability - especially when rigging on a concrete ramp. Specific cams being built for lower-diameter masts. Changing way the cams are being put into the sail to make it easier to pop in without damaging the luff.
[Graham Vials] Any cloth changes? Ie. it’s heavy and cheap?
[Andrew] Every effort made to build 1 sail to suit everyone. Better, expensive, less durable cloths available. 30% less weight possible in windsurfers, but we’re aiming for something that is bulletproof. Until someone makes something lighter, the sails are going to be kept simple and durable. Strength is more important than stiffness or weight. It’s been a conscious decision. Not the fiber that adds longevity, it’s the film. The thinner the film, the more it degrades in UV.
[Jean-Pierre] New cams or specially adapted MSL13?
[Andrew] No more MSL13. It’s an unlucky number. The new MSL14 will be one sail for both masts.
[Simon Payne] The MSL13 was built for light wind regattas for Weymouth. Will there be radically different sail sizes for different conditions, so we could go sailing on days like today?
[Andrew] No. Formula boards use 9.8/10.6/11.5 but the top guy uses only 1 size sail. 8m is never too big for racing. MSL10 will easily work for a racing sailor in 25 knots. Adam has cut down an original MSL10 to 6.55, and I’m considering an 9m sail for fun. If we had a limit for 10m, nobody would use anything smaller, they’d just look a lot different.
[Rohan] What about junior sails?
[Andrew] That’s the 7m. I was contemplating wether to continue developing Moth sails earlier in the year, given the time demands. Given how successful the sails have been this year, likely to expand into things like wing covers, foils, cold-water issues etc. Fences are one way to fix cold-water ventilation, but I’m not going to say more right now.
[Alan Watson] Would you do a sail setting seminar?
[Andrew] Yes, sure. If we can rig inside then let’s do it.
Hyde Sails [Mike Lennon]
Congrats on getting the class to where it is now. Sad to see all the other classes struggling. Paul Brotherton wanted some cheap sails so he tipped me into this. Original development based on Paul’s ideas on lowering centre of effort and reducing drag in top of sail. When I started in the class I started with Amac’s sails and now have a sail which is quite similar in profile to the KA. Sails designed to get foiling earlier, with bigger in the top and less in the bottom, though that’s now changing again, going full circle. We’re now at the point where the sail does all the right things. From a yacht/dinghy background, so coming from a different approach than windsurfers, therefore using a 2.8oz technora cloth, which has better UV properties than most other aramids. Moth sails will last a long time given they don’t flap so much - which is true for most fully-battened sails. Weight is a big consideration for us, using the lightest cloth we can get away with. Cam technology was a bit of a mystery, and we don’t have cam production, so we’re using a mix of Tushingham and Neill Pryde cams. We’ve copied the Neil Pryde ultra-cam system which suspends the cams on a string with a 2-1 purchase against the batten, which should stop them jamming through gybes.
[Burkhard] Longer luff to foil earlier?
[Mike] Luff length is key yes. Longer luff, narrower section should be more efficient.
[James Roche] What do they cost?
[Mike] About 600GBP
Sleeve size?
[Mike] Smaller luff sleeve than we had given how much if fills with water in a capsize and how often the cams fall off. Somewhere in between.
[Mark Robinson] It’s still gusting 33 knots, so we’ll be here for a bit longer.
… We decided a while ago that we don’t want to take the Moth Olympic, given how political it is, but we don’t mind someone taking something off the side. World AGM expected to be held on Wednesday given the forecast.
[Martin Gravare] Opinions on pumping? Rule 42? Two choices: stick to the rules, or flag system like 470s, or third way (??) going completely free.
[Mark] Look at demographics. Our poor old masters wouldn’t cope with pumping like windsurfers. Flag system when breeze strength dictates is not a bad idea but we’d need to change the rules. I’d be against full pumping in any wind strength. If we were all under 30, then
[Bora] We have to be able to pump to get up on foils. To not allow it is dumb. Why are we banning it?
[Mark] Current ISAF rules don’t cope with foiling anyway. We’ve just kept the jury away in the past. We rarely have protests and don’t really want to go down that route. We may go down the path of 3 gusts per gust.
[Belgian guy] How do the jury see the gusts anyway?
[Graham] What’s a wave?
[Mark] We operate on our own little tangent, but when we start modifying ISAF’s rules, then get antsy.
[Graham] Problem with not being able to pump upwind, given that’s when it’s important in foiling.
[Mark] Technically we’re all illegal under the rules. Lucky there’s no jury in the room.
[Alex Adams] Graham’s technique is illegal.
[Mat Belcher] Important to keep it consistent. 470s cant pump but they all do anyway. Everyone is still doing it in Moths anyway. If we keep leaving it open and un-policed then the new guys will do whatever it takes. We really don’t have an option, either leave it unlimited or police it. Grey area is not good.
[Mark] New set of rules on Jan 1 will include something on pumping. There’s a reason Jury’s are independent and have discretion. We need to give guidelines to the Jury. Other acts of seamanship means pretty much anything for a Moth!
[Andrew] Does the person with the best blog win the regatta?
[Mark] Simon wins… cause he’s updating it now.
Wow… what a long-winded blog post… that should keep the fans going for a bit yet.
