Still no wind
So we’ve managed to get 2 races in the last 3 days, and we’re postponed again with no wind.
Given the amount of cloud cover, and the fact that we need another 3 races in the next couple of hours to get a series, things are not looking good.
After 2 races, Pete Harney leads on his lowriding Hungry Tiger, with me 1 point behind, and Nathan another 3 back.
April 12th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
And I was home all packed up only a half hour after the “no more starts” time limit, after unrigging and waiting around chatting for 3 hours because the RO pulled the pin for the day and for the regatta, even though there was a 5+ kt NE and the 12s were racing and lots of other boats were out sailing for fun.
I think that after he was abused on Friday for starting the race before the tardy were present, the RO decided that he was going to put minimum effoirt into getting a complete regatta.
He told us this afternoon that he did not think we would get 3 races so he decided we would have none.
I know some of the sailors were pissed off because they were not foiling, same as a lot of people who do not like 25kt days, but that is sailinig and if the moth class wants to be universal boat for all it needs to sail in all sailable weather.
Just because different people with different equipment come to the front on different days does not mean that the weather is not suitable for racing.
In my time in moths and other classes we have had lots of easter regattas with less wind and we have never before lost a whole event because insufficient races were completed. To get 3 starts and 2 finishes from an 8 race schedule over 3 days is pretty weak effort.
So now NSW has no champion for 2009. I have not checked the trophy but my guess is that this is the first time since all recreation was cancelled during World War 2.
Very dissapointing.
April 12th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
That is one of the silliest comments I have ever seen on scott.com. And that is saying something!
April 12th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
scott.com new sailingporn site?
April 13th, 2009 at 7:49 am
John,
Since you spent most of the weekend away from the club, doing other things, because you decided you did not like light weather sailing and had other important things to do, I think you are not in a position to comment on the RO performance. Especially as it was your adverse comments to him on Friday which contributed to him abandoning a perfectly equitable race.
April 13th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Phil,
Believe it or not I feel no need to seek permission from you to make comment.
One thing I will say is that I am sure that the RO had more than enough spine to make decisions on merit despite your delusions of conspiracy. Ask Les, Ben, Donosan, Luka, Greg W and others whether they were “tardy” or if getting 20 odd moths off a ramp does not happen instantaneously. Obviously your view on what is perfectly equitable differed with the ROs.
April 13th, 2009 at 9:01 am
At our protest hearing the RO gave his main reason for canning race 1 as he believed some unidetifiable boats were towed to the start after the 4 mins and started. He made no serious effort to identify them so those of us who were racing were disenfanchised.
The protest committee deliberated long but decided that the rules allow the RO to abandon as he wishes, and no matter how inequitable his decision stands.
He considered that the 55 minutes he gave between AP down and warning was adequate. That was not his grounds for abandonment.
When he left only 14 boats were signed on. When I launched several boats were still unrigged, very few had foils fitted and many sailors were not in sailing gear. I think that is what we both referred to as tardiness. I noted that the beach we all used at SIRS was again used on Saturday to avoid congenstion.
April 13th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Its a fact that Australians can not sail in cloudy conditions. I think its for the best no races were sailed as it would not have been a true reflection of who the best sailor is.
Sea breeze did not make for interesting reading…Being on the other side of the world does not help but I think staying on shore was the best option.
Pucker up Phil
April 13th, 2009 at 9:58 am
@philstevo
Just a quick question to make sure I haven’t missed something…
What do you hope to achieve through your blog comments, blog posts and emails of complaint to the club and race officer?
April 13th, 2009 at 10:04 am
There was more wind 10 feet under with the sea grass than above the water. Come on phil take a chill pill old boy.
April 13th, 2009 at 11:04 am
My email was to express my disapointment to the RO personally. I copied only to those involved in organising the NSW Champs and IMCA NSW.
My posts are to encourage debate which I hope might prevent the moth class degenerating into a mob of high wind slackos who sit out anything less than foiling wind, just as has happened with sailboarding.
There is a precidence, there is apparent motive on the part of many new comers to the moth class, who were reluctant to be ready and sail in the light winds over the weekend, but I am saying there is also strong feeling against it from longer term mothies.
What do we want moths top be? An all weather boat or a part time high wind show pony like the formula boards? If thats all then we will always be second to them in speed anyway.
April 13th, 2009 at 11:32 am
@philstevo
So many questions.
Do you feel your comments so far have helped or hindered your cause?
Perhaps a more worthwhile contribution to the discussion would be to formulate a set of championship guidelines which we can use to guide current and future race officers in their conduct of regattas. Perhaps?
Maybe that would be more constructive than ranting about the perceived motives of new entrants to the class? Do you think those newcomers could take offense to your comments?
I’m surprised you have come to the conclusion you have. Did you even talk to the several new members who raced for the first time this weekend?
I was surprised to see most of those new members at the front of the fleet, given how much they apparently hate sailing in light winds. How do you explain that?
I also haven’t heard anyone publicly or privately agitating for heavy-wind only events. Where have you heard it?
Where were all these high-wind slackos when we sat out 5 days of the latest World Championships?
April 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Id like to protest against Huey the wind,weather god.Some days I launch its 23 knots.Blond topless women on clontarf beach soaking up the suns rays.Other days you get no wind overcast days.Unfountanily this week we had the latter.Big deal thats sailing.Im going to build myself a bridge and get over it.Adios Doinka
April 13th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
please can we have foiling only racing. The moth was dying before the foils, maybe do to how much a pain of the butt it is to not foil.
The lack of sailing at last years worlds was due more to the RO not letting us out of the harbor since they could not be held liable…
April 13th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
The racing guidelines that Rohan produced for Weymouth indicated a wind range of no less than an average of 5 knots and no more than an average of 25. Although “guidleines” and not “rules” These were approved by IMCA and should be adhered too. the RO has the ultimate control however and local conditons (like tide) can be a big factor. I dont know of many of the top sailors who object to low riding races, most know they are part of racing and practice for them, with the only concern that they are in fact “races” and its not just “drifting with style”. The RO (who we should recognise is a volunteer) has sometimes to be robust when sailors somewhat naturally air their views as to their most preferred way to spend the afternoon! It’s just like sledging in cricket, now used across all sports and developed in Australia. I disagree with foiling only races although I dont seem to be much good at it anymore. This isn’t a class for Luke Piewalkers only, we had 85 years of lowriding and its in the class DNA.
April 13th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I was really disappointed that the racing got abandon as I was loving my time in the FX…..There was a lot of time & love invested in that boat to get it on the water, besides foiling is overrated!!
I was also disappointed that I was the only girl sailing. Maybe instead of having a go at us “newcomers” who are actually supporting the class, u should be looking at the moth owners who didn’t show at all.
I believe that 2 of the newcomers came 2nd and 3rd in heat 2 and proved that they were not only content to sail in these conditions but showed a lot of potential and, I would think would be people u would want to keep in the class??
I propose that we re-run the states at Gosford where there’s always plenty of low riding fun 4 all
April 14th, 2009 at 12:35 am
fudge lowriding not gonna happen here
April 14th, 2009 at 6:33 am
Good because once Lauren gets a good boat then I’m sure she will beat me in low riding conditions.
April 14th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Dear All,
I was an observer on the starting boat on Friday. There were elements of many people’s
behaviour which were highly distasteful and which reflect very badly on the Moth class.
As with many ‘debates’ the truth in the exchange above is probably somewhere in the
middle ground. The guiding concept in conducting races should be ‘fairness’, based on some
agreed and widely discussed principles, many of which are universal to all sailing, but with
some class-specific ones too.
As Scott has suggested we should be constructive now and re-examine these principles.
For at least the last 20 years the Moth class had the the following (or similar) two clauses
in sailing instructions and race management guidelines:
* As a guide, the accepted mean maximum wind strength for the start of a Moth race is
25 knots. This is to be measured in the sailing area (eg. at the committee vessel). Note that
this is a mean figure. Gusts over 25 knots are acceptable.
* The starting procedure may not be commenced and the race postponed if, during the
period 25 to 15 minutes before the scheduled start time the mean wind strength at the
start line is persistently 3 knots or less. The wind measurement is to be taken by the
committee vessel stationed in the area of the starting line.
For years it was widely accepted that boats and sailors had to perform at the extremes
of this wind range (and note the 3 knots, not 5 knots). There was also a usually a clause
which allowed some valid discretion such as sea state or local conditions (Eg. a lee shore).
In terms of overall race management at host clubs, in my experience there is a continuum
from the inexperience ROs who take a lot of advice and direction from the Moth class, through
to the more ‘professional’ ROs, generally at bigger clubs, who do not consult at all.
The best outcomes usually occur from a combination of a strong PRO who knows the rules
backwards and is formal, but who listens to us, and preferably who has been well-briefed
on what we expect (eg. a moth race management document). The more casual and inexperience
ROs can still lead to good racing, but this can lead to valid criticisms of undue influence by
more influential or assertive members of the class. I have witnessed this all too often.
So put your energy into agreeing on the principles under which you want to race in this
great and enduring class.
Fairness, good sportsmanship (insert appropriate gender neutral term) and a wide variety
of conditions would be at the top of my list.
April 14th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Here are my thoughts, as a newcomer, and as someone who usually loves light wind sailing and is hoping his lack of performance this weekend is mostly down to weight and not ability! Though maybe not, as I can probably do more about my ability than my weight
Also, before I start, let me say to Phil that I was pleased to see him near the top of leader board as long time stalwart of the class and (I believe) a self-confessed tinkerer rather than outright race-to-win-er and can understand his disappointment at not being able to convert this into a decent State Champs result, but please don’t take it out on the RO or the newer members of the fleet – let’s look to ourselves and see what we can do about it for the future – which is, I think, your real intention but your disappointment has prevented this being evident in your comments.
The ROs actions over the weekend seemed appropriate to me, given that I hoped that he would hold off racing in marginally sailable conditions for the hope of better winds later. This is the real question to answer I think – do we want a series to be held as near to schedule as possible in whatever prevailing conditions there are with some minimum of say 3 knots or do we want the RO to use their judgement to try to make a series with more races with 5 knots or 7 knots plus? If the former, we could have had a regatta this weekend but it may have required us waiting on the water, rather than on land – is that what we want? I don’t think so but others may differ. If the latter, then what we had this weekend is consistent with that mandate. Although I did find it odd to abandon so early on sunday – even if we weren’t going to get a series in, I think we all would have enjoyed one race with semi-decent winds.
As for the question of the competitors readiness to take advantage of any breeze, that’s up to us, the sailors. It doesn’t help to point at the newcomers but better to look at the fleet in general. Personally, I followed the general lead of the fleet and was in hindsight not as ready as I could have been – not always dressed for sailing but foils in – but I don’t think it would have made much difference as I’m sure the ramp was in mostly constant use right up until the last person launched. As for fridays “race”, it seemed to me there were plenty of people who got stuck in the whole on the way out who made an acceptable effort to be off the ramp on time. If we wanted to make sure people were more prepared for the rest of the weekend, then we should have requested the RO give a briefing asking everyone to be ready, foils fitted and changed for sailing and warn people that stragglers may miss the start – perhaps something like this could go in the sailing instructions. That way, part of making sure you get a result is making sure you’re not late onto the ramp after the AP comes down.
April 14th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Just to set everyone’s mind at ease, Phil and I seem to have been able to find an amicable settlement to whatever differences were inferred through the blog comments above.
So onwards and upwards from here.
April 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
You blokes are a bunch of weapons. No wonder you sail silly little boats in your delusional world!